Tags
Affair, Betrayal, Emotional Affair, lies, moving on, trust issues
I seem to bring up my husbands secret friendship a lot….. which has pros & cons… obvious con being that I bring it up a lot 😉 but a pro could be that I can bring it up & say her name without feeling like I am going to be sick…. or without my blood boiling (though depending on what I’ve brought up & how long the conversation goes…. sometimes my blood still boils) and I can say her name now with it tasting like poison…. so that’s something right? I really don’t feel guilty for continuing to bring it up to ask questions… new questions, the same questions etc….. I think until I no longer feel the need to ask questions, then should I not have the freedom to bring it up? I’m not asking in a way that he’s under attack….. or in an angry tone. For the most part, it’s just me, normal tone asking questions. Trying to understand where his mind was during that time, so I understand. It won’t ever be ok, he’ll never hear me say “ooooh, ok, I totally understand and you know what hon, it’s ok”…. that’ll never happen. But trying to have an understanding of ‘why’ it happened actually really helps me. We’ve come a long way in the past 2 months becasue he’s never not been available for this. He doesn’t say no. He doesn’t say I’m the one refusing to let go. He never accuses me of anything negative and truly does his best to try to give me the answers I need – about a time where he feels utter disgust about himself. I know this, and I still ask him questions…..
Some might think that’s really mean of me. Some might say I AM the one keeping it alive. What I know is that for 2 years he hid a woman from me that he knew I’d be totally uncomfortable with how they interact because she wanted to have sex with him, and while they didn’t have sex….. he always knew he could if he wanted to so it’s kinda like that option was just kept nicely in his back pocket in case he ever decided he wanted to dabble in the completely forbidden kindom…. So what’s fair. Day for day? Should I be entitled to ask questions for at least as long as his secret lasted? I’m not really keeping score on the time frame but I do know that I will continue to ask questions until I don’t need to ask anymore. It’s not about punishing him, it’s about me being able to get through the day. It’s about me asking “so why did this happen” getting an answer & carrying on with the day instead of keeping it inside & havin to deal with the aftermath of his bad & selfish choices by myself (totally unfair) and having all that negative energy bottled up inside and completely ruining my day/week/month etc…. and lets face it, if left alone to deal with his mess on my own it’s only going to make me hate him that day. At least when I’m asking questions & he totally engages in the conversation & tries his best to give me an answer that makes sense to me and the time line/sequence of events…. then he’s actually doing something positive and trying to help. I remember when I first found out about his secrets and tried to find everything I could to read to help to gain insight on well everything about my new unfamiliar awful world (though there is very little out there where it’s in between an emotional affair and secret friend) I kept reading how the spouse who strayed HAS to help the betrayed spouse heal…. I remember thinking, pfft yea right can you go back in time & erase it???? that is the ONLY way you can help me. But with time in between the moment of truth & learning to live with the truth & seeing a furture with this new past…. I now understand that in our case, the way he is able to help me deal with his betrayal is to never shut me down….. That is not to say that I can be a total bitch & abuse him with shame & belitting….. I don’t do that (anymore, but was def guilty of that at the moment of truth) it just means that he doesn’t say things to me like: “we’ve moved on, drop it” or “are we going to do this again” or “why are we having this same conversation over & over”….. and I know there are spouses out there that do that, even knowing how they completely crushed the one they married & vowed to love & protect…. so while my husband is capable of giving in to egotistical motives that leave me completely out of the equation in his decision to do something…. he’s also capable of being selfless and compasionate of the emotional injury he has inflicted on me and he is really doing all he knows how to do to try to help me heal….. I don’t think he will ever be this selfish ever again…. whether we make it or not. I think that he’s finally owned this, and has finally looked in the mirror & sees who he was when he made these decisions & is ashamed of himself becasue of his own expecations of himself and not because of what I expect or anyone else…. and that in my opinion is how we all grow spiritually…. I have seen the change…. this I know.
I can’t help but still wish that this never happened to us. I miss the fairytale version of us and the innocence that was lost at the moment of truth…… of course now I know it WAS a fairytale….. but as I write this, I just miss the safety to be vulnerable and I truly loved that…. hopefully one day I will feel safe again.
If Not Just Friends Than What 
So, I’m working through this right now also. While my husband did have a full affair, complete with disgusting sex, I still have questions. I have wondered about the best way to manage this so I don’t make us both miserable also. I have tried to save them for a certain time each week when we both agree to talk, and I have a running notes app in my phone where I type what I’m thinking. But I, also, can ask things and bring it up without crying and throwing things, sometimes at least, which is progress. I’m coming up on a year since he stopped talking to her, and I found out about her about a year after it began, so I sort of want to be done talking about it, because I think I could ask why forever and I’ll never get an acceptable answer. But then I don’t want him to think he is getting off easy and doesn’t have to try anymore. I don’t want him to forget how bad this is. But I don’t want to live under her shadow forever. I wonder how it goes if I decide to not bring it up when I think about it. I will never forget, so that would be an effort. Would it be a gift? Would it help us? Would it be stupid? Or will it let us make a new relationship not based on a foundation of infidelity? I’m working through this too and I don’t know the answer either. Obviously I believe my fairytale is over also. I just want to be sure that this is what I want now, and that I want what he is offering. I don’t want to live in fear. Can you fake forgetting until you finally do stop thinking about it all the time? And he gave her a year. Now I’ve spent a year on this. He cut her off completely. Can I? Should I? At what point do I decide that the answers don’t matter and that nothing will change so now is what matters and by bringing up the past I am changing the tone of the present. I don’t know how to navigate any of this.
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I totally hear you on not wanting to live under her shadow…. thing is, you most definitely are NOT living under her shadow and when you start to feel that way…. just hold your head up high & remind yourself that you are strong, and loving & made up of a whole lot of goodness! Not everyone has what it takes to stay… it’s a lot easier to leave…. 20 years ago, divorce was what brought on shame… now-a-days, staying is the new shame. I feel it, and I understand I have nothing to be ashamed of, but I do feel it & fight that feeling daily.
I don’t know how long is ok…. honestly I think forever is ok… handled in a healthy & productive way…. I think when you (and I) are ready to move on an stop asking questions we will…. but until that time, I don’t think either of us should feel badly about needing to continue to probe — as long as there’s progress in how it’s handled, and it sounds like you are making progress too. I know I am and I’m proud of myself for that. It’s hard to be compassionate towards my husbands weakness & dark time where he feels shame & disgust about himself…. I do hope to one day be there for him & be able to listen to him talk about it without hearing him feeling sorry for himself. Rationally I don’t think that’s what’s happening but as a betrayed wife who’s world was destroyed, I’m just not ready to listen to that side of it…. if that makes sense.
It’s only been since Feb for me since I found out…. it was over for 2 years before I found out…. so you can imagine how difficult this is for both of us – me wanting answers & he being so far removed from stuff that happened 4 years ago that he doesn’t remember… doesn’t cut it for me… how you can forget something that destroys your spouses life is insulting…. you know?
So you H had the AP for a year and it’s been over for a year? How often do you need to talk about it? For us, I still bring it up a few times a week probably, or more…. he’s good but I’m sure he wishes it would end…. but he’s patient with my need for understanding.
Is your H good that way too? Did you ever confront the OW? Did you know her?
I’m thankful for your reply. I hate that you’ve gone through this, but I’m happy that you are sharing so I know I am not alone.
Thanks again xo
Almost forgot: no, never fake anything. If you feel it, allow it to be known. It’ll be better for you in the long, I think anyways xo
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I don’t think I’ve come across others who found out after it was over…it doesn’t make it hurt less but in a strange way it makes it a bit harder to leave. He ended it on his own. I didn’t make him. I knew he wasn’t acting like him – I just thought it was because of other things and never imagined he was cheating (he managed to see her only at work during lunch and a handful of times when he was leaving early and I wouldn’t have known).
The quick timeline goes like this. He met her Oct 2013, they had sex 3 times (Dec, Jan, and April) and saw each other during his lunch daily until July 2014 (with a month long hiatus in March when he came to his senses, but I guess changed his mind). Then they texted until Sept 17, when he finally got through to her that he was done. He hadn’t seen her since July. I found out Oct 28 2014. I didnt know her, but I did eventually meet her. She lied for him and it took me until March 29 to discover that it wasn’t just an emotional affair (she told me they loved each other but never touched and he told her he was waiting for me to divorce him – he says this never happened). So I found out 6 weeks after he texted her last, 3 months after he saw her last, and over six months after they had sex last. His memory also is bad and it makes me crazy. He says he doesn’t remember because he didn’t plan any of it.
As far as how often we talk about it, I think he thinks I bring it up everyday but I think more in the way that I make him acknowledge shows that talk about cheating, or other triggers. I don’t often get to ask questions or have real talks about things because it’s never a good time. We put it off. Me too. It ruins everything because we both end up in a bad mood. And he’s not going to suddenly tell me more. He is trying to make me happier now, but he isn’t going to tell me anything about her or that time that might upset me. And he’s embarrassed and hates when I cry. So it’s awful for us both. We have tried to make it once a week. But I don’t want to punish him forever and I am just notoriously a grudge holder. I don’t keep people in my life who have hurt me. I just don’t. So I don’t know how to do this, and I’m not sure how it will go.
Do you plan times to talk about it? Do you have kids? It’s really hard for us to make sure they don’t hear us. And see me upset. And he’s worse at hiding it than I am.
It’s good to connect with you too…though I wish not like this. xx
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Yes, we have kids. And when I first found out, we didn’t do a good job of not fighting in front of them…. so much so that I asked my husband to leave. I explained to the kids that mom & dad just needed to take a break because we were fighting too much and we hoped that if dad stayed with nana & grandpa it would help…. our oldest who’s 11 asked if we were getting a divorce… I said no, we are not going to get a divorce, we just want to get along again so for now, we just need a little space…. which he seemed to understand. Our break last only a few days and we both missed each other too much. So at that point I invited him back home & we agreed that we’d do a better job of ‘discussing’ it in front of the kids… which we did. I think it’s not something you can or can’t control honestly & anyone who passes judgement for freaking out in front of the kids well in my opinion has never found out the love of their life has just had an affair & their life was a f’ing fantasy. I think we can and should try to do what’s best for our kids in any and every given moment…. but we are human so if a fight happens in front of them, then perhaps you need to remove someone from the house and in our case, it was my husband… until we had enough time/space to get a grip… so to speak.
We don’t have planned talks no… I tend to ask questions about every other day…. depending on how he responds will pretty much dictate if the conversation is quick less than an hour, or long more than an hour. He has not given me any ‘different’ answers but when probed, he has been able to give me a different angle or something slighly different which inspires another question and so on and so on. For us, the biggest hurdle was for him to take a long hard look at himself and realize that above all else, he let himself down…. that moment of truth where he realized my mother thought just a little less of him…. my brothers might think he’s a real dick for what he’s done….. His parents are disappointed in him… etc…. and at that moment when he realized if he died tomorrow the imprint that he’s leaving ‘at this moment’ is far from honorable and is far from a good man/family man…. he felt shame. And not because of all those other ppl, but because he wants more out of himself… and thank god for that because that is the moment where things started to turn around and we started to figure out answers as to why it happened in the first place.
Of course it started with him stated he felt like I didn’t pay enough attention to him (very popular with the cheaters) but again, through questioning & examing our life at that time…. it really wasn’t about me not paying enough attention to him, but his own insecurities & wanting to keep me from ever knowing about them…. it really came down to him not trusting me to know the real man I married, flaws & all…..
In a way, I think he thought this was the better way to handle it… I’d still see him as my perfect husband & he’d be getting the extra ego boost from another chick…. I guess he forget that he married a lover of truth so like you, when he started to act completely unlike himself, I started to dig & figure out why…. and I knew it had to do with another woman… I just didn’t know to what extent. I was married before, this is my 2nd marriage. My 1st husband was a serial cheater so I know all the signs and when my husband now started to display what I knew was a sign of disconnect/another woman I started to ask him. He denied for 1.5 years until I found something that ultimately led to the truth.
My husband’s affair last longer than your husbands, so I understand how devastating the long term deception is…. I feel for you I really do. I know how it’s destroyed the trust I had, the love we had, the safety we had…. I also know what it’s like to have been cheated on physically and how absolutely disgusting that feels… I wish so much you weren’t going through that…
You are right that if is different finding out after it’s over…. and it does offer a unique problem in the “I don’t remember” sense… on one hand that’s great and means that it meant very little if there’s no recollection…. on the other hand, you’ve destroyed my world for something that you don’t even remember???? wtf?????
How does your H handle your questions? Do you feel the freedom to bring it up whenever you want? Do you feel like an asshole for bringing it up?
How did you meet her???
I knew the OW before it happened… they worked together & right away I knew she was a problem with the whole I’d like to screw your husband vibe…. ugh…
When I think of how fake she was with me it makes me sick & I also feel like an idiot for being such a trusting fool….. gross.
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I’m really glad I found you. I know that your husband had an emotional affair, but the odd thing is that I think that the function of my husband’s affair was more similar to that of an emotional affair. He did have sex with her, but he was not attracted to her, and had sex with her 3 times when it could have been hundreds. He liked how she basically worshipped him and he was her hero and he could do little things for her and she acted like he hung the moon. I think he had sex with her because that’s what she expected. And I kind of wish it was more about sex, because the rest of it is what stays in my head. He told her he loved her and called her pretty girl (she’s really just not) and told her he wished he could give her what she deserved, whatever that means. That is what haunts me and breaks my heart. He says it all meant nothing – and the best he can explain it is that he said those things to her to feel like he was a good guy to her (I wrote about the type of sex they had when they did have it, and I think he felt guilty). But the whole thing was about his ego and his needs. Not about her, or me. He didn’t think he was in love with her. He just knew he wasn’t making me happy and didn’t think he could, and he was the best she would ever get just by showing up. His ego enjoyed that.
I have not come home a few nights, and the kids know that I am mad because he has lied to me. I’m pretty honest. I tell them that I am trying not to take it out on them or anyone else but my heart hurts and I am very angry and sometimes I don’t do a good job of just being mad at the person I should be. They have been pretty sweet to me.
And as for talking about it, I can force it, but I hate doing it. Sometimes I feel like if we are having a good day and then I feel like maybe we could talk while we are both calm, then I decide against it because I know we will both end up feeling bad. Sometimes I can’t stop myself and I say something and I regret it as I’m saying it because I am watching us be happy and there is no reason to ruin it but then I think there was no reason for what he did. He has gotten better about understanding what I am saying, and not avoiding the conversation, but I have also gotten better at not immediately bursting into tears. He knows what my biggest triggers are and he avoids them for me or helps me through them. And that has helped me.
I didn’t know the OW but she’s stupid and I’m smart – so I tricked her into thinking she was emailing my husband. She even set up an alias email so her boyfriend would think that it was another girl emailing her and not my husband. I made my husband give me enough details so I could convince her I was him, and it worked. He didn’t think she would say anything incriminating I guess. But they underestimated me. I begged him to go with me to talk to her because they had both told me very different versions of the “we are just friends” story and I knew it was wrong. I managed to get her to say enough that he had to admit that they had sex. One night I drove out to go tell her boyfriend but I stopped at a gas station before their street because I got scared (he’s a convicted felon). I called my husband from the parking lot and cried. I told him I hated him for not just telling me so I didn’t have to pretend to have conversations with her. As I was crying and talking to him, she walked right past my car and into the gas station. I told him that I saw her. I froze. He yelled at me that I was tricking him. She walked out and went to her car, with her daughter, and didn’t see me. I got out of my car and stood by it as she drove by and waved at her. I knew she knew who I was. She left. I emailed her and said she shouldn’t have left. She should have come to talk to me. She wrote back and said she would meet me. So I did. I told her all the emails were from me and that he never tried to contact her again. She didn’t like that. Then she told me her version, which is the same as his, mostly, but there are some differences that continue to bother me. They probably always will. Some things I know she said just to make me mad. I said some things to her for the same reason. I made sure she knew her mom (I had tried to find her before and only managed to talk to her mom) told me that she had no idea why a man would want anything to do with her daughter when he had a wife like me at home. I know it was mean. But she had sex with my husband. I’m okay with mean.
I didn’t kill her or get her killed. I wish that my husband had chosen me in a way that I could hear or see or know. I don’t know how he ended it. Just that he did. I want her to know he picked me. Not just his kids and his family – but me. I wanted to know she knows. She is gone and I guess she does know. But I wish he would have let me talk to her with him there.
I think it’s just this idea that I didn’t think it was in him to do this. And that of I stay, I’ll never be someone’s only choice. I’m not especially vain, but I thought I was enough to be someone’s only choice. He will get to be my only choice. I’ll never know what it’s like. It’s really not something I considered and I’m having a really hard time with it.
Do you both still wear your rings? I know you saw my post about it. I still have not decided what to do.
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I completely understand feeling like, well must be nice to know I never strayed, even when the going got tough, you were still the only one I chose…. and now I know you weren’t happy with just me & needed more from another…
What a shitty ass feeling…. blaaaaa I feel your pain.
My husband wears his ring…. I did at first but haven’t in months because when I look at them they represent the past and it hurts…. I loved our life… was blinded by my love for our life to the point where it never ever occurred to me that my kind & thoughtful husband who only ever proclaimed to wanting to make me happy could have an affair…. so when I look down at my finger ring free I feel less attached to the pretend marriage I was in.
I won’t ever wear those rings again….. I may wear new ones but I won’t ever wear those because they are symbolic of a life I loved that was taken from me without my consent.
😦
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